Absolutely disgusted

[Marie]

As a bit of a spin off to Terry's rant about people getting single suggies, I've placed this in the ethics section as well, it's a question of ethics really!

I've recently noticed on a US forum the number of people buying single suggies is increasing dramatically!  They are under the impression that a suggie will be ok if they spend just 2-3 hours a day with it!!!  I had never seen anywhere saying that single gliders will be ok with this until I asked for a link.

Link removed but it's an apparently reputable and very large scale breeder!!!

This is what it says -

Sugar gliders are extremely social creatures.  If you cannot afford to purchase two (same sex together is OK), can you commit 2-3 hours daily to spend time with your glider?

A few other questions and then this

If you are comfortable with the answers to these questions, then congratulations, welcome into the world of the sugar glider.  To find out more about sugar glider pricing and availability

I have to say I'm absolutely appalled!!!!  I always thought these were reputable, ethical breeders, obviously I was wrong!

 

[Furbutz]

Yeah, I've read that... some of their other stuff had me thinking twice as well!!

2-3 hours a day is disgusting - would they consider it acceptable to only interact with a child for a couple of hours a day too, because in essence, taking on gliders is taking on the same sort of responsibility with the added hinderance of them not being able to tell you when something is wrong and to condem it to a life of loneliness is just cruel!!

You've set me off again Marie!  :mad

[Marie]

What's 2-3 hours a day with company compared to 22-23 hours alone!!  It's bloody disgraceful!!!  I have to admit, I've not read the whole site, but I subscribed to their newsletter ages ago not that I bother reading them anymore! 

[roxyandboys]

i spend about that time (awake) with my group of suggies and feel guilty for not spending more time!

[Furbutz]

They contradict themselves elswhere in the site saying that they need the company of their own!

And they ship... I know they're not the only ones, but sticking a baby in a box and popping it in an aeroplane hold is not something that I would allow to happen to my babies, I feel bad enough handing them over to their new mums and dads and have embarrassed myself by crying many a time!

[tillie]

So are they saying if you have more than one you dont need to spend anythime with them at all!!!! Arrggggg its so wrong, I spend that amount of time with them anyway like most of us do even though they are not on their own.  God I feel so guilty if I want an early night.  Its so wrong but the trouble is people  believe what they read on the net and will get singles.

[Marie]

I'll be the first to admit - i HAD a single suggie, she was my handreared baby Dinx, I spent at least 12 hours a day with her, the only time she wasn't ON or able to run onto me if she wanted was when I was asleep and she was in her cage.  I *thought* she was ok.  After nearly 2 years she started over grooming, that was the point she got friends, no second thoughts!! 

So if a hand reared suggie who'd never lived with other gliders becomes stressed/depressed/whatever, what chance does a parent reared glider stand? 

[Amalthea]

My first two gliders were singles...  Sugar died young (surprise, surprise) and Candy got friends after a couple months...  Would never do it again.

Mama started overgrooming when Rocky passed away and her tail has never been the same.  The tip is very rubbery and doesn't have any fur left. 

[Amalthea]

And Sugar was always with me...

Candy was actually with me more than she was with her cagemates, though...

[roxyandboys]

on this subject i am worried about Eos, he is my little lad i got from LouLou - cos shyler is heavily joeied up at the moment she and Gizmo are being total bitches to Eos, so i am unable to have htem as one group yet, i am waiting until after Joey comes out of pocuh and hopefully Shyler will be less of a cow, it's been a few weeks since i got him and i worry so much he will go insane on his own, although he is in the same room as the others he cannot play with them.

I do keep thinking that i should try matching him up with Sweets.....

[Marie]

I shouldn't put him with them when the joey comes OOP either - he MAY attack and kill the joey.  What's the issue with Sweets?  Why 'thinking' about it?

I'm almost tempted to go on to the dreaded GC and post the link!!!  I only said almost ... 

[loulou]

I really wouldn't worry too much about Eos ust yet, hes only been with you a short time and as long as he gets loads of human time until you are able to introduce him to another glider he should be ok, obviously watch out for tell tale signs like repetitive behaviour loss of appetite etc. Sweets might be an idea to introduce him to if you want to try it, I am assuming sweets has no joeys in pouch or is male? it will also be the perfect time to get him neutered while hes on his own that's if your vet thinks hes ready yet although he should be now, and then introduce another neutered male once the wound has healed

[roxyandboys]

only thinking because i feel badv about splitting the existing group, sweets brother spice would miss him terribly, but then i could always see how sweets and spice get on together with eos, they are both boys.  That wouldv leave mum shyler and dad Gizmo alone with the joey.  i am torn about what to do with the group, i would like to get all the males done, but am also of the mind that i would like to increase my little colony so would i be better leaving 1 entire male with shyler, which then means the group couldn't live all together...... oh, i dont know.......

First things first.  I'm going to see if sweets and spice want to have some play time with eos - see how it goes.

If all goes well then that makes me feel a whole lot less guilty about Eos being on his lonesome.  Although he is fine and has plenty to do and intereration is good - as for losing his appetite, i dont believe that he could ever suffer with that problem, he eats for england!!

right - i'm going to go and get crabbed at and wake them up for a while - i'll let you know how it goes

Lou - Have a fabby time in gambia, dont forget the leopard. xx

[jungleflockmom]

We like to think that our gliders, when kept in pairs, trios, or colonies, suffer if we do not spend enough time with them. I don't believe that they do. They need plenty of exercise and the company of their own kind, but we are just nice addtions to their lives that they could very well do without. Zoos have kept glider colonies or gliders as part of noctural diorama type exhibits for years and those gliders thrive without the company of humans.

So if you are tired and can't entertain your gliders for your usual time, don't fret about that IF they have plenty of space, wheels, and each other for entertainment.

We tame our gliders for our benefit. They would be perfectly happy in a giant enclosure w/compatible gliders, plants, and nesting sites w/human slaves just to provide food and cleanliness.

[Marie]

Absolutely Dee, i agree 100%, it's that anthropomorphism raising it's ugly head again.  Well, is it anthropomorphism, the fact that WE like to BELIEVE they WANT our attention.  My lot always get up to see me, but I know it's not me (with the exception of Dinx as she's different!) it's the food, play, yoggie drops I may provide that attracts them.