Absolutely disgusted

[Furbutz]

Ok, well this may fan the flames and I'm sorry, my big mouth will probably get me in trouble again, but....

If they are such a large organisation with employees, then surely, they breed for profit which makes them a farm??

Not necessarily a bad one if the gliders are well cared for, but to be honest, from what I had read on the website I really had thought they were just a 'breeder' that was no different from Marie or myself with a side income attached to the breeding.. in my case the pouches and in Maries the equipment and food...it's this that has shocked me (I can't speak for others!) along with their own advice on single gliders!

Certainly if I had that many gliders, whether or not I had the suggie au pairs, I know I would be classed as a farm here in the UK!!

[Marie]

I agree Terry, 200 gliders has gone beyond the realm of hobby, or whatever ever you'd class those non hobby breeders!  You don't  have 200 gliders for the 'pleasure' of it.  My gliders are my pets, they're not breeding machines, if they breed then great, I sell the joeys and it's a self sustaining hobby, if they don't breed then thats ok too.  I have a pair that have never produced in 2 years but they're still with me. 

My glider plans for 2008 are mainly so that I can retire all of my adults and start afresh with the best of their offspring they produce from now on (maybe), before anyone screams inbreeding - I have pairs that are completely unrelated so it's not a problem.  I wonder what an outfit of 200 pairs would do with their retired 'breeding stock'. 

[Furbutz]

  I wonder what an outfit of 200 pairs would do with their retired 'breeding stock'. 

I was thinking exactly that as I read.... mine are the same as yours, if they breed, great! If not, they are still pets and at some point, all of my males will be neutered so that the females can enjoy their time without joeys... and likewise if I still want to breed then I will either keep back or buy in new breeding stock, but with the way things are going, I doubt I will continue breeding beyond my current gliders capabilities!

Something else I was thinking as well.... if they employ staff, do these people work nights or are the gliders woken for their handling during the daytime?
Or do they use artificial lighting to switch the daylight hours?? In which case, do they have some way of slowly re-adjusting the times before the joeys get shipped off to new homes or is a sudden new day/night period something that the babies also have to adjust to??

[LipstickLizard]

What a shame. Its awful when people keep sociable animals on their own. A lot of the pet shops around me refuse to sell rats singly, only in pairs, I think more people should make this a policy.

[UnknownElementX]

While i do agree that the recommendation for a single glider and the cage sizes offered on suncoast are not ideal, i dont think the whole "mill" accusation is fair. I know many people who breed dogs, and while they do care for them as pets, they are "breeders" and make money off of that. If gliders are really to be sold in minimum of 2, then obviously there will have to be a few at suncoast. From my forum searches it seems many owners have had little problems with suncoast and recommended them as providing good hand tamed gliders. I could be wrong, as my info is second hand (if not more), but I've heard little of a mass glider operation with substandard conditions. I find the fact that you cant just order them without talking to someone to be the best indication that they aren't just a mill, in addition to the other info on the site (minus the single glider thing)

[LipstickLizard]

I find it hard to understand how anyone can make money off breeding animals (perhaps with the exception of expensive snake species and morphs). I was considering getting a couple of fancy coloured bearded dragons and breeding them but considering how many crickets the little uns eat and the amount of caging I'd need (given their delightful habit of eating each others toes off) I didnt see how I'd manage to stay in profit. I suppose if you have a large operation it must make more money, but even with the ridiculously overpriced hybrid dogs like labradoodles I dont see how you make a profit when you consider the optimal diet breeding animals need to produce healthy babies. Hmmm.

[kaylakala]

In the United States we have a severe problem with mill breeders. Babies sold 3-4 weeks oop. Diseased ill. It's really horrible.
They set up tents at flea markets selling pelleted diets little cages and heat rocks.

Here's a link to a wonderful US forum that is trying to stop the mill breeders.

http://sesg.suggies.net/index.php

We can use all the support we can get.

[loulou]

well I would have a look at that forum but it appears you have to be a member before you can look at anything and I do not like forums like that so will not be joining I am afraid, no offence but I like to get a feel for a place before I join it.

[kaylakala]

I understand.

Unfortunately we had a severe problem with people posting rude, graphic, pornographic posts and had to make it that way.

Here's the mill breeder project website. anyone can access that.

http://millbreederproject.suggies.net/

[Marie]

How are you going about helping the gliders and stopping the mills?  Do you lobby for them to be closed or something?  I'm glad someone is trying to do something, fortunately we don't have those awful mills in the UK!

[kaylakala]

Well right now we are trying to work wih the laws already in place and not break them ourselves.

Small groups of in different states go to local shows and pass out flyers.

we're also gathering evidence form prople who already bought gliders. Vet bills bills of sale. We are trying to file class action law suits.

I know we got them out of at least one state so far.

The stories and pictures we have are absoluley heart breaking.

It makes me mad this is even allowed to take place

[Marie]

Excellent to know you're really fighting for these poor suggies. As frustrating as it is and as much as you want to strangle the mill owners, it's important to stay legal, as soon as you go beyond the law the battle is lost! 

[bubbles]

it is a shame, esp since there are other animals that r sociable but get sold singly.  we had a lovebird whos mate had already been sold so my mum bought it cos he looked so sad.  he was crazy, never did recover from being alone

[Sian, Sid and Skye]

I can't believe what Im reading. Not only is it a strain to constantly be breeding with a stock (yes stock not pets) of 200 but jeez I wonder when they are retired. Im only going to allow my gliders to breed if they want to and if they breed too often I certainly shant let it happen and castrate the male. I am only planning on allowing them to breed a handful of times overall anyway for many reason.

a) Less chance of inbreeding on next generation of gliders
b) The female glider can care for young at different life stages and as conditions are constanty correct in captivity, they therefor can keep this up all year around as Im sure you know. Can't be nice being pregnant and nursing older gliders at same time. So much strain!

Oh and I wonder how many of those 200 are tame, let alone how many of the what? Hmm lets think. I'd say theres more females than males but lets assume all are pairs which would equate to a total of 400 joeys! (Though I do believe I read somewhere in colonys not all the female gliders are necesarily pregnant at same time) Anyway how many of those would have been handled?

Im not even going to tell you what I think about seperating joeys before they are independant. People do not think of the implications. Of course they get ill and die, they have not received many antibodies from the mum.