Help!

[Kuraii]

        Ok, well, there was this lovely lady that had just too many sugar gliders, and she gave a pair to me. The male passed away, and I have been doing my best with the little girl, she was just a baby. I take good care with her, and try to offer her the best diet possible. It has been pretty easy.

       Well, due to circumstances, this woman has decided that she does not want her other pair...Wich consists of a large handsome male named Mango, and a female with no name. She had her first joey a few months ago, and the woman, not knowing what to do about it, touched it on the first day out o its pouch....And well, the mother isn't tame at all. She's feisty, and she ended up killing the joey. So now, I have these two, and looking at the female while she was out, She has two marble sized lumps where her pouch should be. I'm scared, and I want to take care of these guys as best I can. Is she with joeys? If so, what can I give her to boost her calcium and protein. I heard they eat boiled eggs... Is that good? and low fat yogurt? I'm so unsure. I just got them yesterday, so help will be greatly appreciated.

[Marie]

Hiya, and welcome to the wonderful world of suggies!  First off, what are you feeding your suggies anyway?  Diet is absolutely essential to the health of your suggies, get the balance right and they'll thrive, get it wrong and all sorts of things can go wrong!  Diets with suggies are rarely easy to the oldies never mind the newbies .  You need to be offering all your suggies fruits and veggies, calcium, vitamin supplements and protein.  Protein sources are notoriously bad calcium wise.  You could offer boiled egg, broiled chicken, or as many of us in the UK use, Iams cat biscuits.  I should say here that Iams makes up only a small part of the diet and it must be Iams (if you're in the UK), a cheap dried cat food is full of sh*t and should be avoided at all costs.

It does sound like your new female could have joeys in pouch, if she's feisty then I'd do as little as possible with her for now.  Stress can play an important part in the cannibalisation of joeys.  As she's new, and because she's 'wild', then I'd leave them to settle in, feed them in an evening, say hi, maybe offer a treat through the bars and then leave them alone.  Many people underestimate the power of just leaving them be.  I've found this has worked for me with all my 'wild' rescues.  Their curiosity soon gets the better of them, and once they realise you're not out to hurt them they'll begin to trust you.

Handling a joey a day OOP isn't USUALLY the cause of the parents killing them, although, as the suggies were 'wild' then this could well be the case, the parents do need to trust you before you go playing with their babies though.  Other causes could be to do with diet, a suggie on a poor diet won't be able to sustain herself never mind a joey as well.

Check out the diet threads on here, there's soooooooo many diets out there to choose from, please feel free to ask our opinions and learn from our experiences.

[Kuraii]

Here we have a pellet food that is said to give gliders their fix for just about everything. I hardly trust it. I give them bits of oranges, dark leafy greens, grapes, rasins, and I give them calcium, but it is in a special water and needs to kinda be coated onto things like fruit and bugs. As for protein, I give her bugs. Crickets, grasshoppers, mealworms.

I have been leaving the couple alone. One woman suggested that I split them up and sell the "wild" female and repair the nice male with my single female. I nearly took her head off. They will come out in the evening at take little egg bits from me, and they like their greens. The only thing the local stores offer is the pellet food.

[Marie]

Where are you?  In the UK stores don't offer any suggie food as such, we have to 'make' our own (except obviously the cat food!).  I give them lots of fresh veg and fruit, I think variety is the spice of life, and why would suggies be any different?   I'd stay away from grapes and raisins though, it's a personal choice but Lou (admin on here) lost 2 skunks as a direct result of eating grapes, as no one knows what toxins are affecting or what animals will be affected (so far dogs, parrots and skunks) I'd prefer to stear well clear of them.  Yellow melon is just as good for keeping them hydrated and it's twice as nice (in my opinon).

For calcium you could offer live yogurt, or calcium supplements, you need to be careful how much you give them, too much is as bad as not enough, read the instructions carefully on whatever it is you give them.

I'm glad you didn't follow the advise to sell the 'wild' female, the poor thing, imagine what sort of life she would have then!  Good on you for sticking with her and at least trying to persevere.  You may have to accept she's never going to be a snuggle bum, but suggies will be suggies.  If she continues to kill her joeys you may want to consider getting the male neutered so they can stay together without the added stress of breeding.  Suggies are incredibly cute animals, but they are animals and savage little monsters at that.

[Kuraii]

I live in america, and suprisingly enough, most pet stores do not sell sugar gliders, but sell the food. It comes in long cans, and contains all sorts of things. But, you definately don't want to just give them that, it can give them lumpy jaw, so I offer 50% that, some fruit, and dark fresh leafy greens. Here in America, I've heard nothing about grapes killing animals. Things with food are stict here...Pet food however...Well, buy it in a people store, and it is made for human consumption, you can bet your bottom dollar it's safe. Animal food however has been contaminated several times this year. Thats why I stay away from cat chow.

Yeah...I understand that some sugar gliders just arent people friendly. I am, however, happy to have her. Infact, I'm more than happy, I'm excited, and I hope that she is actually able to deal with joeys. I think after these I may have the male neutered. I am happy to take care of a couple more, but finding good homes are hard... Anyone want to help me name the untameable female?   

[Marie]

So if you're in America there is plenty of choice, personally I'd stay away from the pelleted diets but NOT because of so called lumpy jaw.  Hard food causing lumpy jaw is a total myth.  The story originated from a very well respected person in the US that gave her suggies Brisky's pelleted foods when she went away and each time they developed 'lumpy jaw'.  So everyone put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5!  It was later found that it wasn't the hard food causing the lumps it was cavaties in the suggies teeth.  But in true GC style everyone has ignored the facts and clung desperately onto hard food causes lumpy jaw!!  Plain truth is it doesn't!!

As for contaminated animal food, well I don't know about that as I'm in the UK, but I know of a number of people in the US that use Di ck Van Patens Supreme diet and are more than happy with the results, Jungleflockmom for one.

The grape controversy actually started in America, the aspca discovered the correlation between kidney failure in dogs and grapes (and raisins), they've done a number of tests but cannot single the toxin out.  Dogs have been dying from eating grapes since the late 80's.  HAVE A LOOK AT THIS LINK.

Hmmm, names for the female ... Luci (fer), killer, snuggles, fluffy

[loulou]

Um lumpy jaw, its a shame that myth is still getting around, i am awaiting someone telling us wood in cages causes splinter which are fatal (they are not btw gliders are not made of glass for anyone reading) . I used to feed grapes as part of my diet but as marie said I lost two skunks to grapes which caused renal failure the symptoms are very similar to symptoms I see often on american glider forums where the glider has mysteriously died for unknown reasons and I just have a gut feeling renal failure is the cause which could well be grape related.

Anyway welcome to the forum I do not follow any of the "proven diets" I use my own as do alot of people in the UK  and many many more in the USA are starting to as well, but there are some good diet pages and links as Marie said in our diet section. I also have one not overly cuddly glider here but with lots of attention he has improved alot, he will never be as attention loving as the rest of them but hes content and I am happy with that, neutering is a good way to go and I am thinking of getting all my males done as well, I have been debating for a while but the UK is starting to get a wee bit saturated and I do not want to add to the problem, gliders over here are starting to appear for sale for months and we are starting to hear of them appearing in rehome centres.

I really have babbled sorry

good names for gliders um.........rake! lawnmower,strimmer. (I have a female called wheelbarrow and marie has a female called pitchfork) how about "you little monster get off my finger" or fudge or twinkle or munch

[Kuraii]

Hm. Grapes are going to be canceled from the menu, and I will try this Yellow melon, sides, I personally don't like grapes, so I can split a melon with the little monsters and we'll both be happy.

Thanks so much for all of your help, and this grape info. I never would have thought them to be dangerous... Then again we do have an angry infestation of japanese beetles over here.

As for the female...I actually like Lawnmower. Moe for short XD. I really am glad that you guys are helping me out, If you'd like I can get pictures of Moe and Mango. Maybe you can tell me if those marble sized lumps on the she-critters pouch are joeys. They kinda look darker than the other surrounding fur... This is exciting buisness...But I was just kinda thrown into it.

[Marie]

Lol, Lou have you not read the new sugar glider book by Peggy Brewster?  Neither have I but apparently it says wooden cages shouldn't be used because of the danger of splinters!!  Cus these little animals that are obviously made of glass don't live in trees or anything do they 

Kuraii, pictures are always welcome, it doesn't matter how many times I see them they're still absolutely the most gorgeous things ever!!!

As Lou said with the glider deaths, even if a necropsy is performed and the suggie died of renal failure, who is going to link the death to grapes?  We're here to help you all the way along Kuraii.

[Kuraii]

 Yeah, My sugar glider likes feathers. I can have pictures up by tonight, at the moment, I am moving the cages to my room...I dont really like them where i sleep because they can keep me up, but I think that hearing what is going on between them is a good idea at the moment.

My poor cat is going to have a fit. He owns my room, but is going to have to be kicked out. Oh well...as long as he can still lay in the exact middle of the kitchen floor he'll be ok.

Is there anything more I can do to ease the stress on this couple? like put a towell over their cage?

[Marie]

Under the cover of night they'll be fine, during the daytime just make sure they get plenty of peace and quiet to allow them to sleep.  I would just leave them be, it sounds like the joeys still have a while in pouch, so if she does decide to reject them now, the chances are you won't be able to do anything anyway.  Make sure the cat can't get into the room they're in, a cat is a predator and that will probably stress them out even if she's not hunting them!  I cannot stress how much value leaving them alone has.  When any of my suggies go to their new home I find they settle alot quicker if they're left alone for a day or so.  It probably sounds daft but you need to think like a sugar glider, small, vulnerable (as they're not in a colony), new home, new smells, big thing trying to pick them up or play!  You could try the age old trick of placing a bit of your worn clothing over the top of the cage, it'll probably get dragged in a little, but they will become accustomed to your smell.

[Kuraii]

Ok, it is their first day in my room, wich is closed o under penalty of death. Already this morning I had to goalie the doorway from my cat. He knows somethings going on.

Last night I actually got them to up to me and get treats through their bars, and they seemed perfectly comfortable doing so, and she still has her lumps >D so I guess she hasn't been too stressed. Wooh!

It's great, she bosses the big burly mango about like a little kid....oh yeah, well, I'm going to go get a few pictures <3 I'll be right back.

[Kuraii]

Pictures! Captured with the help of an unfortunate meal worm.
Moe wishes to know what the human is up to.

Moe's marbles O-o

Moe desires my finger.

Moe and Mango. Mango would like a mealworm too.(He got one.)

Moe's pouch

Maru-dashi is woken up, and does not like it.


The picture quality isn't that good, but you get the idea XD

[TessG]

i've got a bad tempered female too and she has taken a lot of time and understanding to get as far as she has. Yoghurt raisins, papaya chunks and meal worms seem to be doing the trick. But i just wanted to say hello and don't give up. They are worth it.

[Kuraii]

I won't be giving up...but I would really like to know if Moe is going to have joeys.  I just cant tell. perhaps she is just chubby or something? XD
I don't mind her being feisty, and having to offer meal worms with chop sticks, but I would like to know what to do about this >_<